Civic City of Lubartów

Actually, to what extent the councilors will want us to amortize the increases. We remind you that they have already amortized themselves. We pay out higher diets, because less is not due ...

It was supposed to be so beautiful, and in the draft resolution for the next session there is again PLN 0.08 / m3 on water and PLN 0.2 / m3 on sewage.

As a reminder, we present the whole discussion that took place in the point concerning the determination of subsidies to the price of water and sewage for the tariff group of recipients - households of the Lubartów City Commune, during the 10th session of the Lubartów City Council of the current term.

In several statements of councilors, there was an expectation of the Mayor to increase the amount of subsidies to the prices of water and sewage.

Will the Mayor include good wishes in the draft of the future budget? Everything indicates that it is not. So it was the so-called pouring water by the councilors, because the draft resolution contains proposals for additional payments in an unchanged amount.  

Chairman of the Council JACEK MIKOŁAJ TOMASIAK

  Dear Councilors, Mayor, Dear Media, Dear Residents, we have been presented with a resolution on the establishment of subsidies for water and sewage prices for a group of recipients households of the Lubartów City Commune and frankly I wonder why such a draft resolution was submitted in connection with what the arguments were raised by us, as Councilors in the previous term, when the same resolutions were voted on. Namely, what were the arguments that, please, ladies and gentlemen, when it comes to the rate of subsidizing the prices of water and sewage, the amount has not changed over the years, and even years since the restructuring of Przedsiębiorstwo Gospodarki Komunalnej took place. Ladies and gentlemen, if we want to relieve the residents, we should consider whether, in the wake of what is happening, this amount should not yield, because if to this day the increases that affect residents for water and sewage are at the level of 20%, I emphasize 20% in the last two years, and there has been no consideration as to whether the residents should also be compensated in some way in this regard. This I am asking why this rate is still the same first. Secondly, I would like to know what the amount is when it comes to the burden on the budget, Thirdly, how much water was used last year, when it comes to the amount of m3 that was used by the inhabitants, and what the indicator was when it comes to for the delivery of sewage to the sewage treatment plant, for which this fee is also regulated here. As well as ladies and gentlemen, I would like to point out that the rationale for the original draft resolution, for the one which unfortunately is continued in the same amount and has not been changed at all for many, many years. And I would like to point out that the Joint Councilors of Lubartów and in the last year, two years, three years, four years ago, always introduced an amendment to make the rates higher. Why do we forget about what has been submitted so far? I just wanted to remind you of one thing. The basis for the adoption of these subsidies, however, was an important thing, and then the argument that came from the mouth of Mayor Jerzy Zwoliński was as follows, that due to the fact that this transformation is taking place, now we will add depreciation costs to the price of water and sewage, no this must be made up for the residents. What happened last year? Last year, a new wastewater treatment plant was commissioned with a bang and there were also new depreciation costs associated with this wastewater treatment plant, which were also passed on directly to the residents. Back then, the rationale for this resolution was this depreciation, 44 now, when we have depreciation again, unfortunately I do not see that these ratios, these surcharges are higher. I would ask for the basic data that I asked for, i.e. the amount of these m 3 for the last year in terms of water consumption, as well as the costs incurred globally by the city budget. Thank you.

The mayor of KRZYSZTOF MARIUSZ PAŚNIK

Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen, Councilors, as during the joint committees Mr. Chairman probably heard, each of your Councilors could introduce amendments to the increase, that is, increase the amount of this subsidy to the prices of water and sewage disposal. So here is an open topic, Councilors have the opportunity to introduce, in line with your suggestions, increasing these subsidies. As for the data asked by Mr. Chairman, I would be happy to provide such information to Mr. Chairman. We will double-check this data and submit it in writing next week. Thank you.

Chairman of the Council JACEK MIKOŁAJ TOMASIAK

  Mr. Mayor, in such a case, he requests that you remove this draft resolution from today's meeting. Well, since we do not have the most basic information, it is also the first time I have collided in 12 years so that this information is not passed on during the session. We always received information about the burden on the budget. This is basic information and I do not believe that if such a draft resolution is submitted to the City Council deliberations, we do not know what financial consequences this resolution will have for this budget. What is the quantity of m 3, ladies and gentlemen? Well, because if someone tells me to submit a draft amendment now, then I cannot make a draft amendment to this draft resolution based on something that I do not know what is worn out. To be rational, I need to know the base amount. I need to know how many m 3 of water was left, what was the load for sewage. So that I can be fully aware, because please note that it is not the case that we can submit a draft resolution here. Only if we submit such a draft resolution, we must also indicate the financial security in the city budget, so please do not persuade me to do something backbreaking at this moment, something that is not rational and has no substantive justification. Because I am not going to lead to anarchy, so I am asking you to answer some basic questions.

The mayor of KRZYSZTOF MARIUSZ PAŚNIK

  Mr. Chairman, I think that we can easily discuss this subject here and without any unnecessary emotions. The cost of these subsidies at the current subsidy rates that we propose is about PLN 140,000. per year when it comes to issues additionally from the budget. However, when it comes to water consumption, the Mayor of Wróblewski will provide additional information and you will receive detailed information here from us in a moment.

Deputy Mayor JAKUB TOMASZ WRÓBLEWSKI

First, water or sewage Mr. Chairman wishes? In 2018, it was 835,225.2 m3 of water consumed with collective supply to the residents of Lubartów, excluding wholesale. However, when it comes to sewage, in 2018 it was 740 792.4 m3 (Statement of the Chairman of the Council from the room: What was the cost of this and that? The cost of water, the cost of sewage.) Are you asking about the company's costs? (Statement of the Chairman of the Council from the room: No, from the city budget, what money was spent on water and what on sewage) The Mayor gave us a moment ago. (Chairman of the Council: But globally, 144 thousand, and I am asking you with a breakdown into one factor and the other.) Mr. Chairman, I apologize for such detailed data, so ad hoc we are not providing you at this point. I will check it right away. Unfortunately, 45 I do not have such data. It seems to me that you multiply this number of m3 by the appropriate 8 grosz and 20 grosz and it will come out.

Chairman of the Council JACEK MIKOŁAJ TOMASIAK

  I'm sorry, ladies and gentlemen, if I do as you advise, I only get the cost of wastewater PLN 148 158, while you said that the global cost was PLN 144 thousand. I would really ask for this information.

The mayor of KRZYSZTOF MARIUSZ PAŚNIK

Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen Councilors, in the report on the implementation of the budget, the amount you received, that is about 140,000, is the amount that costs us, as the City of Lubartów Commune, additionally when it comes to these subsidies. (Statement from the Chairman of the Council from the room: I understand, I understand it perfectly well. I was told that 740,000 m3 was utilized when it comes to sewage. If we multiply this by 20 grosz, what is written in the report has nothing to do with it. )

Deputy Mayor JAKUB TOMASZ WRÓBLEWSKI

Mr. Chairman, I am sorry, I have accidentally misled you, because this amount also includes water supply to enterprises. When it comes to categories of recipients, they are individual recipients. The sale of water for 2018 to these recipients amounted to 594 779.37 m3 (Statement of the Chairman of the Council from the room: Wastewater?)

Chairman of the Council JACEK MIKOŁAJ TOMASIAK

And sorry I can get this data because I just want to submit a fix and don't want to make a mistake. Ladies and Gentlemen, I cannot imagine that someone would say that a guy has any doubts, if there is an issue that someone from the Councilors has this knowledge, I would ask them to share this knowledge. We are at the session of the City Council, we vote subsidies and, ladies and gentlemen, I get different numbers, every 5 minutes a different one and I really have the impression that a resolution has been prepared to say the most delicately, I will not say what, but simply in a quick, whatever and without carefully consider what we have written in this resolution.

Councilor MAREK ADAM POLICHAŃCZUK

Mr. Chairman, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that you received the materials for the session a few days ago. The commission was from 16 for several hours. 1.5h or 2h, we talked about this. You could then ask and someone from your office would have prepared for you. Unfortunately, it was not possible to overthrow the diet resolution, so you are looking for applause at another moment. Please submit a correction at a different date. You can always submit a draft resolution on additional payments in some time. No problem. Please do not look at the moment, because you had enough time to read the material and ask for the data that you are now asking for quickly.

Chairman of the Council JACEK MIKOŁAJ TOMASIAK

Thank you for this remark. However, it was the first time I met, because I wanted the Councilor to realize that this was the first time I encountered such a weak justification for such a resolution. Because in previous years, however, we had indicated the data I mentioned in our justification. But since we have somehow managed to deal with all of this, I am proposing the following amendment. Due to the fact that these depreciation costs affected the wastewater the most, they increased the most, I am proposing an amendment to make the surcharge for this wastewater not only PLN 0.20 as indicated, but due to the fact that 46 there were very radical increases in the fee for sewage so that it amounts to PLN 0.40 per 1 m 3. This will be the result for the city's budget of PLN 111,013, if we multiply it by PLN 0.20, as I was instructed here and in the budget I propose to transfer funds from the reserve for this purpose. Thank you.

Councilor GRZEGORZ BENEDYKT GREGOROWICZ

Dear Members, I think that what is important here is the position of the city authorities, the executive body, what economic effects it will have in the budget, about which many were so concerned. However, as far as I recall, in accordance with our regulations, in the case of changes that seem to result in budgetary effects, the Treasurer must countersign, express and express her opinion. So I think you would have to ask the right institutions and the right people first before making any decisions. Thank you.

Patron PAWEŁ DEPTUŚ

As the proposed amendment has an impact on the budget, I would like to point out here that it should receive an opinion from the Committee on Budgets.

Chairman of the Council JACEK MIKOŁAJ TOMASIAK

Thank you very much. I am announcing a 5-minute break and I am asking you to convene the Committee on Budgets to give its opinion on this amendment.

Councilor JACEK BEDNARSKI

During the break there was a committee and so the Chairman, Jacek Tomasiak, proposed an amendment to § 1 sec. 1: "There is a surcharge on water prices at the gross amount of PLN 0.08 per m3 and on the gross wastewater price" and here was changed "PLN 0.20 per m3" to "0.40" for the tariff group of recipients households of the Lubartów City Commune. Was that the amendment, Mr President? (Statement by the Chairman of the Council from the room: Mr.President, something was given an opinion by the Committee, it was clarified.) Yes, but I would not like to make a mistake and the Committee expressed its negative opinion on this amendment by 5 votes against, 1 in favor. If I could ask Mr. Andrzej Zieliński here to justify why such a decision was made. I will be grateful. Thank you.

Councilor ANDRZEJ WOJCIECH ZIELIŃSKI

Mr. Chairman, High Council, I think that here in this room we would all want to relieve the residents and pay as much as we can afford from the city budget. However, please bear in mind this, and we emphasized at the Committee on Budgets that by adopting today's resolution with the higher rate proposed by the President, we are actually deciding not about the period from September 1 to December 31, but we are creating a financial effect for the next calendar year. Because we cannot imagine to symbolically tell the residents on December 31: and from January 1, we cannot afford to pay extra and we reduce it to the amount that is now in force. So this is the Council's commitment that we will maintain at least the rate that we would have assumed today when increasing today. In our opinion, we propose to the Mayor to accept the rate proposed in the draft resolution. However, oblige the Mayor and the services to analyze the possibility of a financial increase in the subsidy in the next calendar year. And this period from September 1 to December 31 should be treated as an extension of the surcharge in force until the end of August this year. Thank you.

Chairman of the Council JACEK MIKOŁAJ TOMASIAK

Let me refer to this Commission proposal. Ladies and gentlemen, if we are talking about long-term effects, they result from a document that we do not see before us yet. Because for the first time since these charges were introduced, the surcharge for this water was set for only 4 months. I would like to remind you that each time these surcharges were set for the whole year. For the first time, we have a situation where it is set for 4 months. So let's talk about the implications for this year's financial budget and what is being implemented, which was also put forward in the form of my amendment to this resolution. This year, ladies and gentlemen, it is PLN 37 004. PLN 37,004 is the end result as far as the burden is concerned. However, if someone puts forward further theses and states that it is also somehow binding for subsequent resolutions, then I would like to point out that if we talk about the whole next year, it is PLN 111,013 and I am a little surprised by such a fear of allocating this amount . If we compare this amount with what was voted, not so long ago. The annual burden when it comes to diets is estimated at around 110,000. PLN per year. So, on the one hand, we do not really want to pay extra 20 grosze, even though it is 111,000. PLN, and a moment ago the Council took lightly the increases, which in the same amount were left and are charged to the city budget, because from nowhere they were taken, only such costs were passed when it comes to allowances. So here I am appealing, ladies and gentlemen, I did not hear such dilemmas during that discussion in order not to really cause such a situation here. All the more so as I would like to emphasize that so far the increases, which have already taken place in the last two years, are 20% on average on water and sewage.

Councilor MAREK ADAM POLICHAŃCZUK

Ladies and Gentlemen, as you know, when I left the Committee on Budgets, I became a prophet, I knew that such an argument would be heard in a moment at this session. I emphasize once again that our intention is what Mr. Zieliński said exactly. We want to leave the freedom to calculate to the Mayor and oblige the Mayor to raise these subsidies next year. Perhaps they will be higher than PLN 0.40, as it will turn out, but at the moment we do not know. On the other hand, I will give the Chairman, and in fact the President, one piece of advice, if he wants to ease the water subsidies for his residents, he can reduce his salary by 50%, it will be around PLN 120,000. per year and thus will find money to subsidize the residents for water. Thank you very much.

Chairman of the Council JACEK MIKOŁAJ TOMASIAK

Thank you very much. Let me answer Mr. Councilor. I would like to point out to you that you cannot set other charges for water than what is enacted in separate acts. So I understand that Mr. Polichańczuk urges other people to break the law. Because I would also like to remind you that a notification was already submitted to the prosecutor's office by Mr. Mayor Jerzy Zwoliński at the time when advance payments for water different from those approved by Przedsiębiorstwo Gospodarki Komunalnej were specified, and then the subsidies passed by the City Council.

Councilor GRZEGORZ BENEDYKT GREGOROWICZ

Dear Mr. President, Mr. Mayor, Dear Collectors, as if the black scenario is trying to come true, which makes us perhaps want to self-destruct, that today we want to start dismantling our budget, citing theses that are wrong with the opponent indicated by the finger, and it's good for me. Mr. Chairman is the Chairman of the City Council, that is, in a sense, the session police, moderator, you organize the work of the Council, it results from the act. If the Lord notices a log in the eye of Mr. Mark, then may the Lord see the speck in his eye. If you say that by increasing diets, that is, personal expenses, we influenced the shape of the budget next year, it is true. It's true, but everyone knows it, except for you. However, I remind you and I think that there is a recording, take a look at the recording where, during the dietary debate, you asked a rhetorical question about how the budget will be built next year. So if at the moment we are taking care not to make hasty decisions changing the budget, because it may affect the budget of the next year, it is wrong. But when the Lord took care of it, it was good. So it's good for Kali to steal the cow, but it's bad for Kali to steal the cow. The point is that a temporary failure, or perhaps a failure, or a failure to achieve the goals that were intended to be achieved, should not be turned into a self-destruction of this Council, because I believe that the Council, sooner or later, please do not consider it a warning, because I I am not a prophet here and I am not going to be one. In my opinion, no one in this room will allow the city budget and the local government in general to be destroyed. I would like to remind you, if I can, as an older man, as an elder councilor, and not as a man knows more or sees further. But as if I would like to remind you, he simply stopped, and at this point I repeat seeing it in the eyes of the opponent, which the Lord himself does not see in himself. Thank you.

Chairman of the Council JACEK MIKOŁAJ TOMASIAK

Thank you very much. Let me refer to this statement. I wanted to say maybe and vice versa, because I am amazed at this attack and say that you want to increase the subsidy for water and sewage as a destruction of the budget. I suggest that you remember how you voted on the same amendments to the same resolution yourself in the previous term. So I understand that every vote for these amendments with increased fees by the Councilors of Common Lubartów can be described today as the destruction of the budget? After all, we voted for it, we carefully voted the amendments to the same resolution. It is not a situation where Tomasiak comes out today and proposes some new amendment to the resolution. Oh no. Consistently at that time, being in opposition to the Councilors of Wspólny Lubartów, we proposed these amendments. Back then, I didn't hear anyone say that it was a budget destruction, and today I can hear after the elections when we forget about certain things that we did before that this is destruction. I wanted to speak on my behalf and not accuse someone else of destruction, and I would suggest not to make such comments about others. I have the right as a Councilor and I am the Chairman, secondly, I am a Councilor, and I have the right, as a Councilor, to submit an amendment to the resolution, I have the right to vote this amendment. If any Councilors feel that it is unfounded, they have the right to vote against. I believe that it is justified and will be voting in favor of this amendment. And I am not going to offend Mr. Gregorowicz here from the rostrum and I would ask you to weigh your words, or preferably to recall your own actions, what you did the other day, if anyone talks about any kind of destruction.

Councilor MAREK ADAM POLICHAŃCZUK

Ladies and Gentlemen, in fact, Mr. Chairman, you have the right to submit your amendments and nobody takes this right away from you. These amendments were rejected by the Commission with the clear justification as to why. On the other hand, you have no right to put in intentions other than what they really were, only those that suit you, in order to present yourself on television as a defender of the people. And that's it. In addition, please do not compare the situation from a year ago to this point, because it was clearly stated that these subsidies are only for 4 months and they are to facilitate the functioning of the budget. On the other hand, I clearly state once again what the Lord is not hearing, because the Lord hears only His own statements, the Lord does not accept others, and this is one of the reasons for the destruction of the entire Council that the Lord has been doing for many, many months. I will repeat once again: the intention of the Committee on Budgets was to leave the rates, subsidies at this level, at the suggestions of the Mayor, who undertook to indicate the possibility of higher subsidies next year. And this is our intention and please do not associate it with the dietary resolution or any other resolution, because it does not really make sense. The Lord is just leading the destruction here. Thank you.

Councilor GRZEGORZ BENEDYKT GREGOROWICZ

Dear Mr. Chairman, I have heard in this room more than once that I have offended someone or that someone was offended. I apologize in advance if anyone experiences this in the future, but I am not responsible for someone else's self-esteem. If someone feels offended when this image is absent for substantive reasons, then it's hard. Let us not turn this room into a vanity fair, a vanity fair. You can see right away, at least that's how I feel it, and I have the right to do so, unless it is a kind of retaliation for what happened earlier. An attempt to disassemble, according to you, our budget meets a similar attempt by the Lord to disassemble it. So, please, Lord, if the Lord is prompting us, perhaps it is right, perhaps not. But you cannot see the same features that the Lord sees in us negatively, in yourself in a different light, positively. Secondly, let me remind you that I do not give up easily and I do not intend to give up too much from the field, but I am definitely not going to race with you on the verbal and rhetorical level. Though maybe I could. I just want to remind you at the end that we are creating a coalition from which no one has signed off yet. Since you mentioned this about Wspólny Lubartów with the Civic Platform and our candidate who won the mayoral elections, Mr. Krzysztof Paśnik, I wonder why for some time one can also notice some attacks of a political nature against the Mayor. This is my subjective opinion, but I believe that since you have the right to express your opinion, I also have the right to express my opinion, if it is related to the deliberations and local self-government. Therefore, please, sir, it makes no sense, because for the time being there have been barren disputes at this point for a long time. Today, it is logical to maintain this level of subsidy until the end of the year. Because we want to see what it is. However, if you want to prove it later, sorry to say it, but in the S channel, because I understand that only what you said will appear, while our statements will be either marginalized or taken out of context or omitted at all. Please, our voters and yours deserve respect. So sir, we want people to pay more. We do not want to oppress them, rot or be enemies of the people. I hope, just like you, we want this people to be better off, but on the other hand we want to combine material expenses, for example with personal expenses. Even I don't do it in a private company. I do not know how it is with you, but to finish, I would like to ask that the next points of the debate do not turn into a reaction to the previous ones. This course of action ends or may end up in something that no one can control. Do not take this as a threat, because I repeat, I am a man who wants peace, I think they will take me to heaven by force, I would like it to be so. But I am asking for peace, I am calling for reconciliation. Despite everything.

Chairman of the Council JACEK MIKOŁAJ TOMASIAK

Let me refer to this statement because I would like to point out to the Councilor that every Councilor has the right to know the exact justification of the resolution, all the more so if it is to have any financial consequences. And please do not treat the situation that the Councilors are asking for basic data, elementary data, as any attack. Because if it were to be so, let's meet at these sessions at all, let's not discuss, but blindly vote all resolutions without any knowledge. If someone cares about voters, I believe that you cannot care for voters before the elections, and forget about those voters after the elections. So I wanted to make you realize one thing, that no one other than the Lubartów Joint Club has always submitted such an amendment to these surcharges throughout the years. Always. And it is not something new, something that is a surprise, something that may surprise us. I am surprised that this surcharge in the main draft resolution is only PLN 0.40, but if I hear that the justification is that next year these surcharges are to be higher, because I heard that this is the goal, then please, if they have be higher, and if we now vote an amendment of PLN 0.20 for the next 4 months, then go ahead, let the Mayor continue. And I wanted to talk about the consequences of my amendment, not to theorize what will happen in the future, because I don't know what the Mayor has in mind. However, I would like to point out that the financial consequences of the amendment I am submitting for the next period specified in this resolution are PLN 37,004. And this is where I will end, so as not to provide an excuse for more, perhaps, statements that will strain the spiral of emotions.